Con Report - Orbital 2008 - Sunday
Mar. 26th, 2008 10:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
girlofpreyPhew. Right. We definitely had breakfast on Sunday, but it was probably late because I don't remember going to any panels at 10. The first one I made it to - late - I'm mostly blaming the dealer's room - was Was Sam Tyler Really The Master?. I think I missed the part about whether Sam Tyler was actually the Master. When I got there they were discussing the Doctor's children or children of timelords in general. If Sam Tyler was the Master's son, that would be quite win. Anyway, it was mostly about canon and details of Old Who and timelords. Someone asked if there were any female timelords, which even I know the answer too, although possibly only through having Who-ish friends. I think it would be quite beautiful if Sam Tyler was the Master after a turn on the Chameleon Arch. Mostly I like imagining the look on Gene's face when Sam goes all cold, and he and Chris and Ray and Annie having to team up to fight him. Oh. Anyway, the panel also discussed the possibility of Doctor Who going on to be written and run by Joss Whedon. They felt there was a good chance of a "Dalek with a soul" storyline coming about.
At 11, Jen and Alice joined me in the same room for Star Trek: The Ethical Implications of Terraforming, which was - bizarre. The panel moderator started off by checking that, obviously, everyone at the panel had seen Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, which I hadn't, but it turned out to not get mentioned again. They went on to discuss our chances of and whether or not we should try to terraform Mars to support our form of life, as a stepping stone to terraforming planets in other solar systems with newer suns that weren't likely to burn out as fast as ours. We then got onto, if we found life on Mars in the form of bacteria, was it ethical to risk killing it off or to purposely kill it off or to ignore it in our efforts to terraform Mars. But it was all just so odd, people said such strange things. They pretty much started off by talking about how it's kill or be killed, and that's Darwin, and again I don't know that much about Darwin, but even I've heard that's not exactly what he meant. "Survival of the fittest" tends to mean the species that adapts to an environment best, not the one that's the best at killing other things. And they kept talking about being the 'dominant species', as though no other species than dominant ones have survived, and talking about sentience as though we can actually measure that. And taking that weird view of life as 'life that's like ours'. I found myself actually participating, actually joining in the discussions, just to say "Actually, isn't that bullshit?". Another woman in the panel made the point that we have a planet, maybe we should just take care of this one first. Which I mostly agree. It was just all very strange. But good to debate, I suppose.
At 12, in the same room, was Politics in Young Adult Fiction, with China Mieville. I spent a lot of time waiting to see what China Mieville would say. They talked a lot about political messages in books, and books they read as children that had a political message they either noticed at the time or didn't notice until later on, and whether you should set out to put a political message in your fiction. Most people agreed that setting out with A Message just makes for a dull book, and then the readers don't take it in anyway, but that messages that arise from the story are much better and okay. There was a woman on the panel who didn't seem convinced that her books or stories had any messages she didn't put there, in direct opposition to the teachings of China Mieville. She also seemed to take issue with the fact that China's books are often about a society, whereas hers were character-based. I didn't quite understand her, but there were other lovely people on the panel. Eventually I think they started talking about whether or not you should sell out your books if a movie deal comes calling, and tie-in merchandise. Which was a difficult one, though I suppose they - and people - would like to think they wouldn't.
And then at 2, Jen and I went to the Neil Gaiman Guest of Honour talk. Just to see what he'd say. Sort of unsuprisingly, it was mostly about his own work. I feel like I should explain about Neil Gaiman. I think his writing's not actually that great - not abysmal, but not great - and everyone acts like it is. And he acts like it is. I enjoyed some of his stories in Smoke And Mirrors, though some were just a bit odd, but then I read his introduction and his notes on the stories, and really, it is just the wankiest thing I've ever read. All of them seem to have been created by people pushing him to 'write a _______ story for their anthology', and the stories aren't actually that good, and he acts like they are. It's frustrating, really, because I really like Neverwhere, and I just wish he'd done more with it. And he wasn't that bad at some of the panels at Orbital, but on others he made a bunch of jokey comments which weren't funny and which everybody laughed at, and he talked about his own work when most of the other people were just talking quite generally, and he talked so slowly, and skfdhskajdhfksjksdf. So anyway, Jen and I went to his panel. He was going to read an excerpt from his latest book for us, but something had gone wrong with the print-out, so he read one of his latest short stories instead.
It was called 'Orange', and it was alright, though I had a hard time believing Character No 1 would be so blase about an event that had involved her sister being possessed and then taken off to another planet, from which she had not yet returned. Then he told us all about his first Eastercon and how drunk he was, and how he felt like he had found his 'tribe'. Then the chapter of the book arrived and he read part of it. It was, again, fine, although I think not making his title such an obvious reference to The Jungle Book would have been a better step. It had some nice moments, but the descriptions sort of felt a bit much for the atmosphere he was trying to create. Then he asked if the audience had any questions, and no-one did at first, which was sort of a bit meanly special. Eventually people started asking him about his work, and what his favourite medium is - it turns out it's radio plays - and I waited to see if anyone would ask about Neverwhere sequels, but no-one did. Oh well.
After that I think I went off to get lunch, and eventually joined the Writing the Near Future panel quite late, which was about whether writing stories set 50 years in the future was harder than stories set 500 years in the future. Also about what the world and technology might be like 50 years or so in the future. And about what kind of detail you might or should put in your books. Apparently detailed descriptions of how the computers work probably won't be very good. I don't remember much about this panel actually, I think I found it a bit boring, and had a headache, so went back to the room. I went down to the buffet dinner on my own at 5:30, and had more cake buffet. And diced herbed potatoes, mmm.
At 6 I went to the The Appeal of Lovecraft panel, which had China Mieville on it. I have also read some Lovecraft and have an interest in it, but he was rather a big draw. And rather beautifully, he was on the panel with the young Dutch author from my first panel, and they sat them together. Sometimes when China spoke, the Dutch guy looked at him, and you could see a sort of love in his eyes. I can't say that I blame him. Anyway, they talked about H.P. Lovecraft's work, and monsters, and how his work was really rather Modernist, although he apparently hated Modernist Art. They also discussed his racism and his possible fascism, and whether or not the monsters were sexual or erotic. China didn't think there were. There was also a bit of gossip/discussion of H.P. Lovecraft's private life, and how that related to things. I occasionally just went off and imagined if monsters attacked the hotel, and China Mieville and the Dutch writer had to survive together, or lead the rest of us to safety. But it was an interesting panel, and made me want to read some more of H.P. Lovecraft.
At 7 I think I went back to the room to watch Emmerdale, which wasn't on in favour of Ice Age. I think from the storylines that are running now there was some Emmerdale on over the weekend, though I could have just missed something on Monday while I was coming back, but I like Ice Age anyway. Eventually Jen, Liz and Alice all came back and we hung out for a while, and then at 8 I went to Comics as Collaboration, which was again full of comic book writers and artists talking about their work and experiences with collaborations. Paul Cornell was among them, suprisingly, but he was talking about his comics career rather than Doctor Who. Again, some of it was quite interesting, but a lot of it was a bit technical or personal, but it was a nice inside look at the comic book writing process.
Then at 8 I had the difficult choice - the Don't Cross the Streams panel about where sci-fi crosses over into fantasy, and vice versa, with China Mieville, or the Roughening Up Fantasyland panel, since fantasy is sort of more my thing, with Holly Black, who I didn't know was going to be there, and who wrote the Spiderwick Chronicles and a couple of more adult books about fairies which look quite interesting. In the end I stuck with the Fantasy panel, partly because I'd already seen a lot of China Mieville, partly because it was in the same room I was already in. And it was quite good. Tanith Lee wandered in about halfway through, late for the panel, and was just sort of mad, though she made some good points about the diversity of fantasy books and how writers shouldn't let people try to put them in a 'box'. The writer of the Shadowmarch trilogy, which looks interesting, was there as well, and Holly Black was quite lovely, and they talked about how 'gritty' fantasy should be and how 'gritty' it is nowadays. They talked about detail vs. keeping the plot interesting, and how cliches can keep you from buying a fantasy world. It was quite good, though not particularly standout.
Then I was going to go to the Clanger Physics and Ecology panel at 10, but Alice had said she was going as well and texted me to say that they were staying in the room instead, so I decided to go back and hang out there instead. Liz left to go run her Martha Jones - Most Heroic Companion? panel, and Alice went off to socialise or something, and Jen and I went down to the Martha Jones panel but didn't stay for long. Personally I was disappointed Mickey wasn't crowned the most heroic companion, just for being great. And they did keep talking about Martha and people I don't know. So we went back to the room, and discussed Blake's 7 and precisely what was up with Heroes. And possibly some other things. What was up with Heroes fandom, at least in part. Eventually Liz and Alice came back and we talked over them for a while as they tried to go to bed, and finally went to bed. For my last time at the hotel :(
One day left to write up. The agency rang me this morning about my start date for the new job, and apparently no-one will be available to train me until Monday, so that's when I'm starting. Which means a few days less pay. But at least I'll be off for my birthday, tomorrow, I guess.
At 11, Jen and Alice joined me in the same room for Star Trek: The Ethical Implications of Terraforming, which was - bizarre. The panel moderator started off by checking that, obviously, everyone at the panel had seen Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, which I hadn't, but it turned out to not get mentioned again. They went on to discuss our chances of and whether or not we should try to terraform Mars to support our form of life, as a stepping stone to terraforming planets in other solar systems with newer suns that weren't likely to burn out as fast as ours. We then got onto, if we found life on Mars in the form of bacteria, was it ethical to risk killing it off or to purposely kill it off or to ignore it in our efforts to terraform Mars. But it was all just so odd, people said such strange things. They pretty much started off by talking about how it's kill or be killed, and that's Darwin, and again I don't know that much about Darwin, but even I've heard that's not exactly what he meant. "Survival of the fittest" tends to mean the species that adapts to an environment best, not the one that's the best at killing other things. And they kept talking about being the 'dominant species', as though no other species than dominant ones have survived, and talking about sentience as though we can actually measure that. And taking that weird view of life as 'life that's like ours'. I found myself actually participating, actually joining in the discussions, just to say "Actually, isn't that bullshit?". Another woman in the panel made the point that we have a planet, maybe we should just take care of this one first. Which I mostly agree. It was just all very strange. But good to debate, I suppose.
At 12, in the same room, was Politics in Young Adult Fiction, with China Mieville. I spent a lot of time waiting to see what China Mieville would say. They talked a lot about political messages in books, and books they read as children that had a political message they either noticed at the time or didn't notice until later on, and whether you should set out to put a political message in your fiction. Most people agreed that setting out with A Message just makes for a dull book, and then the readers don't take it in anyway, but that messages that arise from the story are much better and okay. There was a woman on the panel who didn't seem convinced that her books or stories had any messages she didn't put there, in direct opposition to the teachings of China Mieville. She also seemed to take issue with the fact that China's books are often about a society, whereas hers were character-based. I didn't quite understand her, but there were other lovely people on the panel. Eventually I think they started talking about whether or not you should sell out your books if a movie deal comes calling, and tie-in merchandise. Which was a difficult one, though I suppose they - and people - would like to think they wouldn't.
And then at 2, Jen and I went to the Neil Gaiman Guest of Honour talk. Just to see what he'd say. Sort of unsuprisingly, it was mostly about his own work. I feel like I should explain about Neil Gaiman. I think his writing's not actually that great - not abysmal, but not great - and everyone acts like it is. And he acts like it is. I enjoyed some of his stories in Smoke And Mirrors, though some were just a bit odd, but then I read his introduction and his notes on the stories, and really, it is just the wankiest thing I've ever read. All of them seem to have been created by people pushing him to 'write a _______ story for their anthology', and the stories aren't actually that good, and he acts like they are. It's frustrating, really, because I really like Neverwhere, and I just wish he'd done more with it. And he wasn't that bad at some of the panels at Orbital, but on others he made a bunch of jokey comments which weren't funny and which everybody laughed at, and he talked about his own work when most of the other people were just talking quite generally, and he talked so slowly, and skfdhskajdhfksjksdf. So anyway, Jen and I went to his panel. He was going to read an excerpt from his latest book for us, but something had gone wrong with the print-out, so he read one of his latest short stories instead.
It was called 'Orange', and it was alright, though I had a hard time believing Character No 1 would be so blase about an event that had involved her sister being possessed and then taken off to another planet, from which she had not yet returned. Then he told us all about his first Eastercon and how drunk he was, and how he felt like he had found his 'tribe'. Then the chapter of the book arrived and he read part of it. It was, again, fine, although I think not making his title such an obvious reference to The Jungle Book would have been a better step. It had some nice moments, but the descriptions sort of felt a bit much for the atmosphere he was trying to create. Then he asked if the audience had any questions, and no-one did at first, which was sort of a bit meanly special. Eventually people started asking him about his work, and what his favourite medium is - it turns out it's radio plays - and I waited to see if anyone would ask about Neverwhere sequels, but no-one did. Oh well.
After that I think I went off to get lunch, and eventually joined the Writing the Near Future panel quite late, which was about whether writing stories set 50 years in the future was harder than stories set 500 years in the future. Also about what the world and technology might be like 50 years or so in the future. And about what kind of detail you might or should put in your books. Apparently detailed descriptions of how the computers work probably won't be very good. I don't remember much about this panel actually, I think I found it a bit boring, and had a headache, so went back to the room. I went down to the buffet dinner on my own at 5:30, and had more cake buffet. And diced herbed potatoes, mmm.
At 6 I went to the The Appeal of Lovecraft panel, which had China Mieville on it. I have also read some Lovecraft and have an interest in it, but he was rather a big draw. And rather beautifully, he was on the panel with the young Dutch author from my first panel, and they sat them together. Sometimes when China spoke, the Dutch guy looked at him, and you could see a sort of love in his eyes. I can't say that I blame him. Anyway, they talked about H.P. Lovecraft's work, and monsters, and how his work was really rather Modernist, although he apparently hated Modernist Art. They also discussed his racism and his possible fascism, and whether or not the monsters were sexual or erotic. China didn't think there were. There was also a bit of gossip/discussion of H.P. Lovecraft's private life, and how that related to things. I occasionally just went off and imagined if monsters attacked the hotel, and China Mieville and the Dutch writer had to survive together, or lead the rest of us to safety. But it was an interesting panel, and made me want to read some more of H.P. Lovecraft.
At 7 I think I went back to the room to watch Emmerdale, which wasn't on in favour of Ice Age. I think from the storylines that are running now there was some Emmerdale on over the weekend, though I could have just missed something on Monday while I was coming back, but I like Ice Age anyway. Eventually Jen, Liz and Alice all came back and we hung out for a while, and then at 8 I went to Comics as Collaboration, which was again full of comic book writers and artists talking about their work and experiences with collaborations. Paul Cornell was among them, suprisingly, but he was talking about his comics career rather than Doctor Who. Again, some of it was quite interesting, but a lot of it was a bit technical or personal, but it was a nice inside look at the comic book writing process.
Then at 8 I had the difficult choice - the Don't Cross the Streams panel about where sci-fi crosses over into fantasy, and vice versa, with China Mieville, or the Roughening Up Fantasyland panel, since fantasy is sort of more my thing, with Holly Black, who I didn't know was going to be there, and who wrote the Spiderwick Chronicles and a couple of more adult books about fairies which look quite interesting. In the end I stuck with the Fantasy panel, partly because I'd already seen a lot of China Mieville, partly because it was in the same room I was already in. And it was quite good. Tanith Lee wandered in about halfway through, late for the panel, and was just sort of mad, though she made some good points about the diversity of fantasy books and how writers shouldn't let people try to put them in a 'box'. The writer of the Shadowmarch trilogy, which looks interesting, was there as well, and Holly Black was quite lovely, and they talked about how 'gritty' fantasy should be and how 'gritty' it is nowadays. They talked about detail vs. keeping the plot interesting, and how cliches can keep you from buying a fantasy world. It was quite good, though not particularly standout.
Then I was going to go to the Clanger Physics and Ecology panel at 10, but Alice had said she was going as well and texted me to say that they were staying in the room instead, so I decided to go back and hang out there instead. Liz left to go run her Martha Jones - Most Heroic Companion? panel, and Alice went off to socialise or something, and Jen and I went down to the Martha Jones panel but didn't stay for long. Personally I was disappointed Mickey wasn't crowned the most heroic companion, just for being great. And they did keep talking about Martha and people I don't know. So we went back to the room, and discussed Blake's 7 and precisely what was up with Heroes. And possibly some other things. What was up with Heroes fandom, at least in part. Eventually Liz and Alice came back and we talked over them for a while as they tried to go to bed, and finally went to bed. For my last time at the hotel :(
One day left to write up. The agency rang me this morning about my start date for the new job, and apparently no-one will be available to train me until Monday, so that's when I'm starting. Which means a few days less pay. But at least I'll be off for my birthday, tomorrow, I guess.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-27 04:33 am (UTC)Tad Williams? I think I maybe hid in my room when that was going on. Was it Tad Williams? Is that the trilogy you mean? Did anyone ask exactly when he was going to FINISH his trilogy instead of not having finished his trilogy which is getting a bit old now?
I am quite glad you don't have to work on your birthday despite it actually just meaning you have less money. IT IS MAYBE YOUR BIRTHDAY NOW REALLY IN REAL TIME. HAPPY BIRTHDAY WELL DONE!
I don't think you understand that TERRAFORMING IS OUR *DUTY* AS HUMAN BEINGS, RACHAEL. Stop doubting our right to kill everything we see.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-27 01:34 pm (UTC)::Blows self a birthday noisemaker:: Yay!
Our species has had to put up with my constant hatred, and NOW THIS.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-27 02:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-27 02:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-27 05:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-27 06:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-03-27 08:33 pm (UTC)